The Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag

[LOMTED]

Nyob zoo ib tsoom sawvdaws,

Hnub no muaj zoo caij kuv xav tuaj nrog nej pauv tswv yim me ntsis
txog ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Kuv tau interviewed tau tus laus
neeg hmoob cov paub kab ke pam tuag zoo txog ntawm "The BASIC of Hmoob
kab ke pam tuag"

Muaj ntau tus kuj muaj kev xam pom raw li lawv tij coj, ntawm tej pab
tej pawg tabsis feem coob lawv puas leej pom txog ntawm kev sib thooj
txog "The fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag" yog li nej coj ib
tsoom sawv daws ua tuaj rau hauv lub forum no nej ho xam pom txog qhov
no licas.

In your opinion, what is the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag?
and what is not the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag but could be
considers as a valuable addition to the fundamental? and what is the
addition that are not valuable to the fundamentals but add-on anyway?
and what's other elements are considers over the top and should be
avoid as an addition to the fundamental AND how are we're going to do
about it?

Thanks in advance for your insightful information with this matter.

LOMTED

[Moobsib]

It is a good topic and I like to see those who are experts on the
issues concerned to contribute their ideas for us to learn.

ms

[LOMTED]

Moobsib,

Kuv los xaam le koj hab.

[Victor]

Post by LOMTED
Nyob zoo ib tsoom sawvdaws,
Hnub no muaj zoo caij kuv xav tuaj nrog nej pauv tswv yim me ntsis
txog ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Kuv tau interviewed tau tus laus
neeg hmoob cov paub kab ke pam tuag zoo txog ntawm "The BASIC of Hmoob
kab ke pam tuag"
Muaj ntau tus kuj muaj kev xam pom raw li lawv tij coj, ntawm tej pab
tej pawg tabsis feem coob lawv puas leej pom txog ntawm kev sib thooj
txog "The fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag" yog li nej coj ib
tsoom sawv daws ua tuaj rau hauv lub forum no nej ho xam pom txog qhov
no licas.
In your opinion, what is the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag?
and what is not the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag but could be
considers as a valuable addition to the fundamental? and what is the
addition that are not valuable to the fundamentals but add-on anyway?
and what's other elements are considers over the top and should be
avoid as an addition to the fundamental AND how are we're going to do
about it?
Thanks in advance for your insightful information with this matter.
LOMTED

Nyob zoo LOMTED,

Raws li kuv paub, Hmoob cov basic practices nyob hauv hmoob kab kev
pam tuag kuv tsuas pom 2 yam xwb:
1. Taw ke.
2. Qeej tu siab.

Ntawm ib xeem neeg, thaum tsis tau muab tus tuag lub cev dai rau pem
hauv plag, lawv yuav nug hais tias "nej rov taub hau mloog nruas los
rov ko taw mloog nruas?" Ib tus Hmoob tsuas muaj rov taub hau mloog
nruas los rov ko taw mloog nruas xwb. Thaum nws paub yog qhov twg lawm
ces kev pam tuag txiv ntawd mus leej twg ua los tau tas nrho.

Ntawm Hmoob yuav pam tuag tsheej 3-4 hnub los 10 tawm hnub ntawd yog
kev show off ntawm tsev neeg muaj kev ploj tuag ntawd xwb. Tsis yog
necessities.

The last resort, yog tsis tau dab tsi tag nrho los tsuav tau tus taw
ke xwb los yeej tau lawm. Yog li, qhov basic ritual tshaj plaws nyob
hauv Hmoob kev pam tuag ces yog taw kev nkaus xwb. Everything else is
optional.

Victor

[kwvtijhmoob]

Post by Victor
Raws li kuv paub, Hmoob cov basic practices nyob hauv hmoob kab kev
1. Taw ke.
2. Qeej tu siab.

kuv ntxiv qhov #3 rau victo 2 qho saum toj no. #3 yog hauv qhua,
especially tus tuag ntawd yog tus pojniam muaj txiv. yuav tsum tau hu
tus txiv dag laug tuaj nias tsum los yog tuaj tua tus nyuj thauv ub
sib yuav es niam tais thiab yawm txiv muab ib choj nyiaj ($1000) ntau
ua lub ncauj tsiag rau. yog tuag tsis hu txiv dab laug ntag ces lwm
hnub rov sib yuav txog ces kawg mag pluas los yog yuav tsum raug thim
$1000 nyiaj ntawd rov qab mus xwb mas lawv mam li kam hais rooj tshoob
no ov. hmoob qhov pob caus loj tshaj plaws ua hmoob pauv tsis tau
qhov kom tsis muaj hauv qhua lawm ces yog qhov no nraus xwb.

[Centurion]

Post by Victor

Post by LOMTED
Nyob zoo ib tsoom sawvdaws,
Hnub no muaj zoo caij kuv xav tuaj nrog nej pauv tswv yim me ntsis
txog ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Kuv tau interviewed tau tus laus
neeg hmoob cov paub kab ke pam tuag zoo txog ntawm "The BASIC of Hmoob
kab ke pam tuag"
Muaj ntau tus kuj muaj kev xam pom raw li lawv tij coj, ntawm tej pab
tej pawg tabsis feem coob lawv puas leej pom txog ntawm kev sib thooj
txog "The fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag" yog li nej coj ib
tsoom sawv daws ua tuaj rau hauv lub forum no nej ho xam pom txog qhov
no licas.
In your opinion, what is the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag?
and what is not the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag but could be
considers as a valuable addition to the fundamental? and what is the
addition that are not valuable to the fundamentals but add-on anyway?
and what's other elements are considers over the top and should be
avoid as an addition to the fundamental AND how are we're going to do
about it?
Thanks in advance for your insightful information with this matter.
LOMTED

Nyob zoo LOMTED,
Raws li kuv paub, Hmoob cov basic practices nyob hauv hmoob kab kev
1. Taw ke.
2. Qeej tu siab.
Ntawm ib xeem neeg, thaum tsis tau muab tus tuag lub cev dai rau pem
hauv plag, lawv yuav nug hais tias "nej rov taub hau mloog nruas los
rov ko taw mloog nruas?" Ib tus Hmoob tsuas muaj rov taub hau mloog
nruas los rov ko taw mloog nruas xwb. Thaum nws paub yog qhov twg lawm
ces kev pam tuag txiv ntawd mus leej twg ua los tau tas nrho.
Ntawm Hmoob yuav pam tuag tsheej 3-4 hnub los 10 tawm hnub ntawd yog
kev show off ntawm tsev neeg muaj kev ploj tuag ntawd xwb. Tsis yog
necessities.
The last resort, yog tsis tau dab tsi tag nrho los tsuav tau tus taw
ke xwb los yeej tau lawm. Yog li, qhov basic ritual tshaj plaws nyob
hauv Hmoob kev pam tuag ces yog taw kev nkaus xwb. Everything else is
optional.
Victor- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

ca kuv ntxiv rua hab seb puas yog. and not in particular order.

1. Taw kev (qhas tug tuag kev moog ntuj txag teb tsaus)
2. Qeej tu siab.
3. tshuab qeej/ntau nruag
4. xyom
5. foomkom
6. txheev nuj/nqe
7. tua ntuj/ntwm rua tug tuag (nwg nuav tsis tua rua tom tshaav tuag
lawm. Why?)
8. ???
what is added: Lots flowers
what is subtracted: tsis nyav ntau ntau lawm, if at all; tsis muaj
tswm tsaav lawm-why?

[Born2beMhong]

Teddy,

koj mus nyeem qhov link ua peb twb tham dhau los lawm nod xwb.

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.hmong/browse_thread/thread/6731ad50eef84a33/791b4a550b95baca?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=born2behmong%2C+qeej#791b4a550b95baca


kuv mus nrog kiag kuv ib tug tijlaug ua paub dab paub qhua thiab ua
txiv qeej, txiv taw kev, txiv cojxai tham tag...

cov tseem ceeb thiab the fundamental of hmong funeral ritual ces muaj
li hais hauv qab no xwb:

1. taws kev
2. qeej tusiav
3. qeej zwm hleb los yog nces nees
4. qeej sawvkev mus nqaum toj xwb.

dhau txhua yam ntawd, txog tagnrho los tau tsi tseemceeb dabtsi
kiag...

niam no, peb cov hlua los laj laj ua hauvqhua li lawm thiab...tej pag
tej xau, ua hnub ua hmo zov hnub mus thawm hmo ntawd los muab khuam
tseg mus...lub rooj los, niam no peb ua neeg muaj lawm, tsi siv lawm--
tsi muaj ib tug yuav pluag pluag es muab tsi tau tsoos tsho rau tej
laus lawm. dhau li ntawd, txiv coj xai los tsi yuav lawm los yeej tau
tib yam nawb. yog xav yuav, ces nrhiav ib tug neeg ua txawj txawj
hais lus tuaj hais lus me me xwb ces tag li ntawd.

txhua yam, hmoob ua yog ua los yuav ntsej yuav muag thiab los rag
hmoob tej nyuag kev txuj ci lomzem lawm xwb.

Born

[cwjmem]

Hmoob cov basic kab ke pam tuag ntawm muaj li no.

Ua rau tus tuag.

1. Tu zam
2. Taw kev (qhia kev mus cuag poj cuag yawm)
3. Tshuab qeej tu siav
4. Tshuab qeej tsa nees/ tsa nees
5. Hauv qhua
6. qeej hlawv ntawv/ sawv kev

Cov ua hauj lawm

1. cuab tsav (feneral director/manager)
2. Txiv qeej txiv nruas
3. Xyom cuab/ cuab tsav
4. Niam ua mov (food preparers)

Can be shorten the funeral ritual to 2 days and a night.

Post by LOMTED
Nyob zoo ib tsoom sawvdaws,
Hnub no muaj zoo caij kuv xav tuaj nrog nej pauv tswv yim me ntsis
txog ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Kuv tau interviewed tau tus laus
neeg hmoob cov paub kab ke pam tuag zoo txog ntawm "The BASIC of Hmoob
kab ke pam tuag"
Muaj ntau tus kuj muaj kev xam pom raw li lawv tij coj, ntawm tej pab
tej pawg tabsis feem coob lawv puas leej pom txog ntawm kev sib thooj
txog "The fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag" yog li nej coj ib
tsoom sawv daws ua tuaj rau hauv lub forum no nej ho xam pom txog qhov
no licas.
In your opinion, what is the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag?
and what is not the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag but could be
considers as a valuable addition to the fundamental? and what is the
addition that are not valuable to the fundamentals but add-on anyway?
and what's other elements are considers over the top and should be
avoid as an addition to the fundamental AND how are we're going to do
about it?
Thanks in advance for your insightful information with this matter.
LOMTED

[kwvtijhmoob]

raws li thauv peb ua cob fab nyob hav zoov hav tsuag ces peb ua qhov
basic ces peb ua li no xwb.

txheej txheem ces ua li no xwb:
1. tu zam thiab ntxhuav muag
2. taw kev
3. tshuab zaj qeej tu siav
4. tshuab zaj qeej tsa nees thiab muab 1 tug tsiaj (usually just a
chicken) tua tsa nees
5. tshuab zaj qeej sawv ke

ntshais, su thiab hmo ces tus txiv cuab tsav tsuas laig kiag xwb ces
tsum li xwb.

cov thawj lwm tub ncig ces tsuas muaj li no xwb:
1. tus txiv cuab tsav
2. 1 tug txiv qeej

ua li no xwb.

[Born2beMhong]

Post by kwvtijhmoob
raws li thauv peb ua cob fab nyob hav zoov hav tsuag ces peb ua qhov
basic ces peb ua li no xwb.
1.  tu zam thiab ntxhuav muag
2.  taw kev
3.  tshuab zaj qeej tu siav
4.  tshuab zaj qeej tsa nees thiab muab 1 tug tsiaj (usually just a
chicken) tua tsa nees
5.  tshuab zaj qeej sawv ke
ntshais, su thiab hmo ces tus txiv cuab tsav tsuas laig kiag xwb ces
tsum li xwb.
1.  tus txiv cuab tsav
2.  1 tug txiv qeej
ua li no xwb.

Kwvtijhmoob,

ua tsaug, kuv nyiam li koj hais no lawm xwb tiag (koj qhov steps no
zoo txaus lawm)...simple and easy for the future generation to
practice. however, we should not limit it, because we should set it
as freedom of choice and fundamental ritual practice of the
individual. except that a governing rule of this simple term that you
post here should be naming for the basic necessity of a hmong funeral
ritual in the States.

i ask that we should not limit the practice of this ritual and the
tshoobko ritual because it is that individual that determine his/her
own free-well. however, we must limit our future participation of the
death, and highly concertract onto the living; this would further
deter the changed and shorter the length of time for such hmong
funeral ritual.

Born2beHmong

[LOMTED]

Post by Born2beMhong

Post by kwvtijhmoob
raws li thauv peb ua cob fab nyob hav zoov hav tsuag ces peb ua qhov
basic ces peb ua li no xwb.
1.  tu zam thiab ntxhuav muag
2.  taw kev
3.  tshuab zaj qeej tu siav
4.  tshuab zaj qeej tsa nees thiab muab 1 tug tsiaj (usually just a
chicken) tua tsa nees
5.  tshuab zaj qeej sawv ke
ntshais, su thiab hmo ces tus txiv cuab tsav tsuas laig kiag xwb ces
tsum li xwb.
1.  tus txiv cuab tsav
2.  1 tug txiv qeej
ua li no xwb.

Kwvtijhmoob,
ua tsaug, kuv nyiam li koj hais no lawm xwb tiag (koj qhov steps no
zoo txaus lawm)...simple and easy for the future generation to
practice.  however, we should not limit it, because we should set it
as freedom of choice and fundamental ritual practice of the
individual.  except that a governing rule of this simple term that you
post here should be naming for the basic necessity of a hmong funeral
ritual in the States.
i ask that we should not limit the practice of this ritual and the
tshoobko ritual because it is that individual that determine his/her
own free-well.  however, we must limit our future participation of the
death, and highly concertract onto the living; this would further
deter the changed and shorter the length of time for such hmong
funeral ritual.
Born2beHmong- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Born,

Kuv los yeej xav ib yam li koj hais thiab pom thooj li kwvtijhmoob
thiab hais txog zaj no. Peb yuav tsis txwv tsis txiav tsis yuav leej
twg, leej hmoob twg nws yuav ua li cas los qhov ntawm yog nws feem
xyuam. Qhov tseeb ua peb xav muab teeb tseg rau ib tsoom hmoob koj
sawv daws ho nrog paub txog tias qhov twg yog qhov ua li hmoob laug
hais tias "Koob Mus Yoj, Xov Los Nyog" xwb thaum lawm.

Dhaum ntawm peb yuav tau tshaw fawb thiab sau tseg txog lub paus lub
ntsis ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Es kom leej hlo leej yau hmoob
twg yuav ua li cas los nws yeej muaj nws txoj cai ua tabsis qhov tseeb
tsuam yog kom nws muaj lub fwj tsam los mus paub txog lub txiaj lub
ntsig ntawm qhov nws yuav thiab xav pom txog txoj kab txoj kev ntawm
qhov ua nws ua ntawv xwb.

Ib tug tsis txhob xyav ib tug, ib tug tsis txhob sab ib tug ntxhiab
txoj zaj no, kom peb tsoom neeg xam pom txog qhov no tias nws tsuas
yog ib qhov uas peb tsuas yog ua kom ib tag ob tag li tej laus hais
xwb. Cav thaum peb nyob qub teb qub chaw peb ua li cas los twb yog li
ntawm, li ib co phoojywg nyob hauv no tau hais tseg lawm.

Sau npe,

LOMTED

[Moobsib]

Cov bojyaig,

Kuv yeej tsi paub hab tsi txawj txug tej kws mej thaam lug nuav hlo
le. Tawm sis raws le yug soj saib lug mas, dlua le tej kws mej thaam
taag lug lawd, lub rooj "HAS XWM/HAISXWM" ntawd kuj muaj kev tseem
ceeb kawg rua tug tuag hab tsoom xyomcuab. Tug Txwjlaug (Judge) yog
tug lug muab tej nuj tej nqe kws tug tuag tshuav los sis lwm tug ho
tshuav tug tuag nqe has kuas tav, kuas meej. Qhov nuav kuj yog ib qho
procedure tseem ceeb nyob huv txuj kaabke paamtuag hab.

Vim tas peb haiv neeg Moob yeej yog ib haiv neeg kws muaj txuj kev
nojhaus saib hlub tshaaj lwm yaam es peb ua dlaab tsi los txhaj le
muab kev nojhaus coj lug ua qhov tseem ceeb hab luj rua huv lawm.

Yuav kom peb hloov hab tig moog muab lwm yaam kev txhim khu lub neej
saib hlub tshaaj kev noj haus mas yuav tau nrhav kev txhimkhu kws zoo
nkauj, qaab sab los sis txaus nyam lug moog ua qha pub rua peb suav
dlawg kawm. Thaus peb kawm tau lawd es xaam pum txuj kev tsim nqe lawm
ces peb txhaj le yuav hloov tau. Qhov nuav ces txhais has tas cov
hluas kws muaj txujci sab yuav tau RHAWV DLUA KEV RUA SUAV DLAWG TAUG
LAWM YAAV PEG SUAB.

Ua tsaug,

Moobsib

[Tony]

Post by LOMTED
Dhaum ntawm peb yuav tau tshaw fawb thiab sau tseg txog lub paus lub
ntsis ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Es kom leej hlo leej yau hmoob
twg yuav ua li cas los nws yeej muaj nws txoj cai ua tabsis qhov tseeb
tsuam yog kom nws muaj lub fwj tsam los mus paub txog lub txiaj lub
ntsig ntawm qhov nws yuav thiab xav pom txog txoj kab txoj kev ntawm
qhov ua nws ua ntawv xwb.

Kuv moog tshawb pum ob zaaj qhuab ke Moob suav (Ruey Yih Fu -Nicholas
Tapp) hab Moob Nplog (Jaques Lemoines - Kenneth White) muab tau lug
ces yog le nuav:

1. Cov tseem caj sissau lug nyob uake (tsevtuabneeg, kwvtij, hab
zejzog-social gathering).
2. Puab lug saibtxug tug tuag ntawd le keebkwm (history).
3. Cov laug lug xaam saibseb leejtwg txhajle yuav xaa tau tug tuag
ntawd moog txug pujyawm lub chaw su (txivmum, kwstawvkev, losyog tug
tawkev) - Showing the way.

Dlejcawv hab nojhaus ces poob moog rua theem 1 kws yog tsoom kwvtij
txheebze tuaj sisntsib hab sispaab ntaa lub nteeg kuas tav.

Tawkev ces pavtxug tug tuag ntawd lubneej rua cov nyob tomqaab noog
txij ntawm nwg lub chaw tuag, moog rua nwg lub chaw yug, moog ntxiv
rua nwg pujyawm lub chaw su; dlhau ntawd ces tawkev kuas nwg rovqaab
moog ntawjthab lug ua tuabneeg xwb. Ntawd yog tug tuag le keebkwm hab
nwg tug plig moog thawjthab.

Tug tawkev yog tug tseem ceeb kws yuav tau paubtxug tug tuag ntawd
lubneej, keebkwm, hab pujyawm lub chaw su. Nwg yog tug expert le
meskas has.

Txivqueej, cuabtsaab, nam ua-mov le tejntawd ces yog kev txhaisqhua
hab dlha lub nteeg ntawd kuas tav xwb.

Lawv le kuv noog tug txivqeej, nwg hastas paamtuag ces yog coj tug
tuag ntawd moog log xwb vim tuabneeg muaj tug plig. Yog tsi muaj tug
plig ces tsi taag coj tug tuag ntawd moog log le.

Tej mej thaam dlhau lug ces yog tej num dlha rua lub nteeg xwb. Ua
ntau tuaj ces suavdlawg novqaab lub hauvpaub hab lub ntsis lawm.
Thaus zoo le ntawd txhajle muaj ntau yaam kws cojtxawv. Yog peb paub
lub ntsablug ntawm kev paamtuag le peb theem sautoj nuav ces lwm yaam
ca rua lwm ua xwb. Tej ntawd yog tej nraa nyaav kws suavdlawg muab
nog rua tsev tuabneeg aub xwb. Tej xwm tomkawg, consequence ces:
1. Tseb tuabneeg txomnyem yuav ntaa tsi taug lub nteeg.
2. Tsev tuabneeg muaj nyaj yuav tua tsajtxu ntau kuas tau ntsejmuag.
3. Tej qhua tuaj pum ces yuav muab tsev tuabneeg txomnyem pev rua
tsev tuabneeg muaj nyaj. Thaus txug lwm nub, ces lwm tsev tuabneeg
txawm xaav kuas ua luj xwb.

Nthau hwv ces ua le tug txivmum tawkev rua tug tuag, noj tsi taug los
uatag noj. Haus tsi taug los uatag haus. Ua tsaaj ua taub ntim moog
kuas pujyawm taunoj tauhaus (nyob rua ntuj txag teb tsaug, ntuj qhua
teb nkig).

Thaus mej nyeem ntawv es ntau hwv ces koj nyeem los uatag nyeem, nyeem
taag los nyeem dlua. Siv caij siv nyoog lug nyeem kuas paub hauvpaug
ti ntsi es txhajle paub txug hastas lub homphaj ntawm kev paamtuag yog
le tej laug ua losyog puab tsuam nraa rua tsev tuabneeg kws quajntsuag
ntawd aub. Thaus ntawd puab hastas muaj tsi muaj los yuavtsum ua kua
muaj xwb. Qhovnuav yog cov kwvtij hab tej neejtsaa ua yuav ntsejmuag
lawm.

[Moobsib]

Ua tsaug os, Tony aw... Kuv tau ntsib yawm Dr. Nicolas Tapp lawm hab
mas tawm sis tsi tau nyeem nwg phau ntawv xwb.

ms

[cwjmem]

A good source of reading about Hmong funeral ritual practice.

http://hmongstudies.com/HSJ-v1n1_Falk.pdf

[vaajmoob]

lomted es, leej twg has tsua koj has tas moog saib tuabneeg tuag nua
mas, peb moog ces yog moog saib nwg tug quaspuj los yog quasyawg saib
puag ntsim caij xwb naj,
vmged

Post by LOMTED
Nyob zoo ib tsoom sawvdaws,
Hnub no muaj zoo caij kuv xav tuaj nrog nej pauv tswv yim me ntsis
txog ntawm peb hmoob kab ke pam tuag. Kuv tau interviewed tau tus laus
neeg hmoob cov paub kab ke pam tuag zoo txog ntawm "The BASIC of Hmoob
kab ke pam tuag"
Muaj ntau tus kuj muaj kev xam pom raw li lawv tij coj, ntawm tej pab
tej pawg tabsis feem coob lawv puas leej pom txog ntawm kev sib thooj
txog "The fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag" yog li nej coj ib
tsoom sawv daws ua tuaj rau hauv lub forum no nej ho xam pom txog qhov
no licas.
In your opinion, what is the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag?
and what is not the Fundamentals of Hmoob kab ke pam tuag but could be
considers as a valuable addition to the fundamental? and what is the
addition that are not valuable to the fundamentals but add-on anyway?
and what's other elements are considers over the top and should be
avoid as an addition to the fundamental AND how are we're going to do
about it?
Thanks in advance for your insightful information with this matter.
LOMTED

[s***@gmail.com]

nej puas muaj cov ntawv qhia nyob Email los sig intens kuv thov saib kawm thiab puas tau os?